Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
8 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Daniel Dekany
Dear All,

While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.

So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
people don't request but I know they need it... :) ), increasing
usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).

Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)

*: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
   here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
   is another question. We will see.

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Raymond Auge
Hello Daniel,

Thanks for this. The effort is greatly appreciated ... not that in our case we have any immiently pending issues to resolve. Things pretty much just work for us and have for a long time.

However, I will make it known within our own community that you are proposing this effort and see if I can drum up any particular set of needs or wishes to present them here.

Also, if at any time you feel that the maintenance of FreeMarker is threatened by lack of support, or your own ability/desire (work, life, etc.), please let use know as there may be occasion to help with that.

Sincerely,
- Ray


On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Daniel Dekany <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear All,

While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.

So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
people don't request but I know they need it... :) ), increasing
usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).

Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)

*: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
   here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
   is another question. We will see.

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel



--
Raymond Augé  | Senior Software Architect | Liferay, Inc. 

---

24-25 October 2012 | Liferay Spain Symposium | liferay.com/spain2012

16 November 2012 | Liferay Italy Symposium | liferay.com/italy2012



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Johno Crawford
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Hi Daniel,

I would like to see the following;
  1. FreeMarker source moved to GitHub
    • This would simplify the work involved for developers and maintainers to manage contributions / bug fixes and issues.
  2. Minimum JDK 5, or even 6 (which is now EOL)
    • This would greatly reduce the complexity of the code, some parts of the current code are riddled with JDK compat checks.
    • Ability to use the concurrent package to improve performance!
  3. Continue deploying artifacts to central Maven.
Cheers,

Johno

On 10/03/2013 2:06 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
Dear All,

While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.

So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
people don't request but I know they need it... :) ), increasing
usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).

Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)

*: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
   here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
   is another question. We will see.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Raymond Auge
Good thoughts!

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Johno Crawford <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Daniel,

I would like to see the following;
  1. FreeMarker source moved to GitHub
    • This would simplify the work involved for developers and maintainers to manage contributions / bug fixes and issues.
+1
 
  1. Minimum JDK 5, or even 6 (which is now EOL)
    • This would greatly reduce the complexity of the code, some parts of the current code are riddled with JDK compat checks.
    • Ability to use the concurrent package to improve performance!
+1
 
  1. Continue deploying artifacts to central Maven.
Cheers,

Johno


On 10/03/2013 2:06 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
Dear All,

While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.

So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
people don't request but I know they need it... :) ), increasing
usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).

Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)

*: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
   here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
   is another question. We will see.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel




--
Raymond Augé  | Senior Software Architect | Liferay, Inc. 

---

24-25 October 2012 | Liferay Spain Symposium | liferay.com/spain2012

16 November 2012 | Liferay Italy Symposium | liferay.com/italy2012



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Johno Crawford
Sunday, March 10, 2013, 5:00:06 PM, Johno Crawford wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I would like to see the following;
> 1.      FreeMarker source moved to GitHub
> °       This would simplify the work involved for developers and
>         maintainers to manage contributions / bug fixes and issues.

That I have already done a year ago or so. Back then I hoped that the
GIT branch will be released as 2.4.0 earlier, and then the 2.3.0
branch on sf.net SVN can be abandoned. Anyway, if everything goes as I
have planned, this will happen in the summer.

> 2.      Minimum JDK 5, or even 6 (which is now EOL)

Sure, the GIT branch already requires Java 5.

> °       This would greatly reduce the complexity of the code, some
> parts of the current code are riddled with JDK compat checks.
> °       Ability to use the concurrent package to improve performance!

If you are talking about the class introspection cache, this will
probably already happen in 2.3.20.

> 3.      Continue deploying artifacts to central Maven.

Of course. (Especially since, as I said, I plan to switch to Maven for
building. Plus I want to make this a multi-module Maven project, so
you can mark only the modules you really need as dependency. Not that
people complain about the size of the monolithic freemarker.jar... but
with a Maven build I have to do that, because FM has to support
multiple versions of Servlet, Jython, etc., and then why not do it
properly.)

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


> Cheers,
>
> Johno
>
> On 10/03/2013 2:06 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
> line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
> FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
> original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
> around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
> this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.
>
> So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
> FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
> goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
> issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
> too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
> people don't request but I know they need it...   ), increasing
> usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
> simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
> contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
> modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).
>
> Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
> you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
> could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
> things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
> etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
> don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)
>
> *: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
>    here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
>    is another question. We will see.
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Raymond Auge
Sunday, March 10, 2013, 4:28:45 PM, Raymond Auge wrote:

> Hello Daniel,
>
> Thanks for this. The effort is greatly appreciated ... not that in
> our case we have any immiently pending issues to resolve. Things
> pretty much just work for us and have for a long time.
>
> However, I will make it known within our own community that you are
> proposing this effort and see if I can drum up any particular set of
> needs or wishes to present them here.

Thank you for that!

BTW, one of the things that bugs me is that I don't know much the
FreeMarker integration of the important frameworks. Occasionally, I
see some fragments of FM in some of them, and it's usually pretty bad.
(No, I'm not talking about Liferay here, I don't know it.) They
mis-use features, don't know about features and use ugly hacks
instead, or just never truly finished the integration (i.e., you can
access some framework services from JSP, but they have forgotten to
also expose it to FreeMarker). And at the end FM is only as good as
its integration is. So, although I don't think I will have time for
this during this planned effort, an important way of improving FM
would be reviewing it's integration in other framework, and do
contributions where necessary.

> Also, if at any time you feel that the maintenance of FreeMarker is
> threatened by lack of support, or your own ability/desire (work,
> life, etc.), please let use know as there may be occasion to help with that.

The project is threatened by its bus factor before anything else. The
hassles of signing the CLA doesn't help either. So one of the goals of
this effort will be moving the project to some OS "house", like, I
don't know, Codehaous. That was just an random example, I haven't
looked into this yet. Now, I'm a programmer and not really a
politician (although I'm more "PC" then Jonathan is ;) ), if anybody
has insights, experiences, so on, I'm all ears.

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


> Sincerely,
> - Ray
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Daniel Dekany <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> While I'm not one of the original authors of the 2.x.x (non-classic)
> line, seems I have gradually become the main maintainer of the
> FreeMarker template engine over the last few years or so, as the
> original authors (I mostly mean Jonathan and Attila) are inactive
> around here. Only I couldn't allocate enough time for this either, and
> this starts to become a problem for FreeMarker.
>
> So, to catch up, I plan to allocate serious amount of time [*] for
> FreeMarker development stating from late spring or early summer. The
> goal of this effort is fixing long-standing issues (mostly design
> issues that can be addressed without breaking backward compatibility
> too much), adding frequently requested missing features (an those that
> people don't request but I know they need it...   ), increasing
> usability (better error messages, better documentation, terminology
> simplification) and to make FreeMarker more accessible for potential
> contributors (fixing the branching mess, switching to Maven, Git,
> modularization, addressing ownership/licensing and CLA issues).
>
> Thus, as the first step, I would like to hear about what the wishes of
> you as FreeMarker user are. What features you crave for the most, how
> could FreeMarker integrate better with your product, what are the
> things you or your fellow developers most often has problems with,
> etc. (Of course, I do have a long list of things to fix/improve, but I
> don't want to influence the discussion at this point.)
>
> *: How much time, you might ask. I'm thinking of a few hundred hours
>    here. Yeah, that's bold. What life will allow (work, family, etc.),
>    is another question. We will see.
>
> --
> Thanks,
>  Daniel Dekany


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

jimingliu
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Hi Daniel ,

Glad to know your great plan. Just think if you put it on the homepage of freemarker, there might have more engineers know your plan and can join you. I believe few engineer know the mailing list, but a lot of them visit homepage from time to time.

Thanks!

Jiming Liu
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Survey for preparing FreeMarker development effort

Daniel Dekany
Monday, April 1, 2013, 10:46:32 AM, jimingliu wrote:

> Hi Daniel ,
>
> Glad to know your great plan. Just think if you put it on the homepage of
> freemarker, there might have more engineers know your plan and can join you.
> I believe few engineer know the mailing list, but a lot of them visit
> homepage from time to time.

I'm also asking the wishes of users on the lists of some of the more
important projects that depends on FreeMarker. So it's not just the
FreeMarker list. The primary goal here is checking what's important
for the users. I kind of already know that, after nearly 10 years on
the FM list (I believe), but, just to be sure that I'm up to date in
this...

As of others joining... If somebody has experience with Eclipse plugin
development, or just want to learn that, then either the JBoss
FreeMarker plugin has to be improved, or totally new one should be
written. That's something where one can help without knowing FM inside
out, yet it's critically important for FM.

The core development is a more difficult matter. This will be
something that requires deeper FreeMarker knowledge and such.

I could also collect donations, so that my family doesn't kill me for
not making money :-), or more importantly, so that I can stretch this
effort. Actually, SF.net has an infrastructure for that (although I'm
not yet sure how will I explain this to the Hungarian tax authorities,
and I guess they will want the half of the income or something like
that).

> Thanks!
>
> Jiming Liu

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
_______________________________________________
FreeMarker-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel