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Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
something happens with me, or I just move on).

So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
"dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
of space for advancement.

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Woonsan Ko
Sounds really cool!
I'd like to help anythings (code/doc contributions and incubation
related chores) with regard to moving to ASF. I have once helped Apache
Rave a bit in PPMC with my colleagues (one as ASF member as well). I'll
spread the word.
I'm sure this project will be really successful and gather big
participation soon in bigger communities with this move.

Kind regards,

Woonsan

On 5/30/15 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:

> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>
> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
> of space for advancement.
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

marijan milicevic
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Hi Daniel,

I would also be interested in contributing..I am (we are) using freemarker extensively and I would really like it to become an Apache project.

My apache "handle" is marijan (@apache.org) if you need more information.

cheers
marijan

PS:  I am one of the Woonasan colleagues

Daniel Dekany wrote
We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
something happens with me, or I just move on).

So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
"dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
of space for advancement.

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

marijan milicevic
marijan milicevic wrote

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I would also be interested in contributing..I am (we are) using freemarker
> extensively and I would really like it to become an Apache project.
>
> My apache "handle" is marijan (@apache.org) if you need more information.
>
> cheers
> marijan
>
> PS:  I am one of the Woonasan colleagues
> Daniel Dekany wrote
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Daniel Dekany
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> FreeMarker-devel mailing list

>> FreeMarker-devel@.sourceforge

>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel





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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Pete Helgren
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
I don't have the Java skills that a contributor ought to have but I am
willing to be included and if there is a "to-do" list I'll give it a
shot.  My understanding of FM internals is pretty limited but again, as
a long time user of FM, I'll do what I can.

Pete Helgren
www.petesworkshop.com
GIAC Secure Software Programmer-Java

On 5/30/2015 5:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:

> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>
> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
> of space for advancement.
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Woonsan Ko
Sunday, May 31, 2015, 7:59:52 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

> Sounds really cool!
> I'd like to help anythings (code/doc contributions and incubation
> related chores) with regard to moving to ASF. I have once helped Apache
> Rave a bit in PPMC with my colleagues (one as ASF member as well). I'll
> spread the word.

Thanks! We will need the help during the incubation for sure!

> I'm sure this project will be really successful and gather big
> participation soon in bigger communities with this move.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On 5/30/15 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>
>

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Raymond Auge
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Liferay would enjoy if Freemarker (which Liferay uses extensively) were to become an Apache project and would try to participate as much as we could.

Could you not provide to ASF the long list of "Powered by Freemarker" as indicator that it's an active and viable project?

- Ray


On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany <[hidden email]> wrote:
We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
something happens with me, or I just move on).

So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
"dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
of space for advancement.

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


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--
Raymond Augé (@rotty3000)
Senior Software Architect Liferay, Inc. (@Liferay)
Board Member & EEG Co-Chair, OSGi Alliance (@OSGiAlliance)

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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Pete Helgren
Thank you! And yes, there will be a TODO list, that I will assemble
with contributors is mind. BTW, just trying to make new features to
fail can be a big help, or participating in decision regarding FTL
language design decisions with a fresh eye.

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


Monday, June 1, 2015, 8:44:20 PM, Pete Helgren wrote:

> I don't have the Java skills that a contributor ought to have but I am
> willing to be included and if there is a "to-do" list I'll give it a
> shot.  My understanding of FM internals is pretty limited but again, as
> a long time user of FM, I'll do what I can.
>
> Pete Helgren
> www.petesworkshop.com
> GIAC Secure Software Programmer-Java
>
> On 5/30/2015 5:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> FreeMarker-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by marijan milicevic
So, Marijan and Woonasan. I'm especially interested in what Hippo
needs, what FM features you miss the most there, and what existing
"features" you hate the most.

Also, if in what topics you feel like contributing to. (Like Woonasan
has mentioned Spring MVC integration. That would be very useful to
improve.)

(And again, there will be a TODO list to pick from.)

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


Monday, June 1, 2015, 2:33:52 PM, marijan milicevic wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I would also be interested in contributing..I am (we are) using freemarker
> extensively and I would really like it to become an Apache project.
>
> My apache "handle" is marijan (@apache.org) if you need more information.
>
> cheers
> marijan
>
> PS:  I am one of the Woonasan colleagues
>
>
> Daniel Dekany wrote
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Daniel Dekany
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> FreeMarker-devel mailing list
>
>> FreeMarker-devel@.sourceforge
>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://freemarker.624813.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-contributors-as-part-of-Apache-incubation-tp4655445p4655448.html
> Sent from the freemarker-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> FreeMarker-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Raymond Auge
Monday, June 1, 2015, 9:07:26 PM, Raymond Auge wrote:

> Liferay would enjoy if Freemarker (which Liferay uses extensively)
> were to become an Apache project and would try to participate as much as we could.

Well, if Liferay needs some feature anyway, you know, that's the best place
to help maybe.

Also maybe Eclipse IDE development is a natural place where Liferay
could help out. It can either mean the improvement of the JBoss IDE,
or better yet, supporting Angelo Zerr in developing the plugin he has
started (hoping he still wants to do it). Other than it has more
potential for technical reasons, that could probably be done under the
Freemarker project, which means visible project activity. Or, working
on the FM core for better debugger support is also something that
Liferay may benefits from. Anyway, I ran ahead too much... we aren't
even in the Incubator yet.

> Could you not provide to ASF the long list of "Powered by
> Freemarker" as indicator that it's an active and viable project?

They know that it's a widely used project, as far as I can tell. But
maybe it should be linked from the proposal, yes. The main concern
that was raised is that it has not much active contributors.

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


> - Ray
>
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>
> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
> of space for advancement.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Daniel Dekany
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> FreeMarker-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freemarker-devel
>
>
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Woonsan Ko
I forgot tell in the initial mail... This whole activity was started
by Jacopo Cappellato from Apache OFBiz, who has the "Champion" role in
this, as they call it at ASF. We also already have the required number
of Mentors BTW.


Sunday, May 31, 2015, 7:59:52 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

> Sounds really cool!
> I'd like to help anythings (code/doc contributions and incubation
> related chores) with regard to moving to ASF. I have once helped Apache
> Rave a bit in PPMC with my colleagues (one as ASF member as well). I'll
> spread the word.
> I'm sure this project will be really successful and gather big
> participation soon in bigger communities with this move.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On 5/30/15 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>
>

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Woonsan Ko
Yeah, I noticed that in the general@incubator today. That's really nice
to have enough mentors already!
Also, "Champion" will help you and others overcome any problems and find
proper resources, etc. [1]
In my experience with Rave incubation, those mentors and champion helped
a lot (including infra, branding, legal issues, etc) to establish a new
project and community until graduation.
I don't see any big differences between your way gardening in this
community and Apache Way. So, I'm really sure you'll be happily
organizing people and gardening in a bigger and more active community in
the near future. ;-)

Cheers,

Woonsan

[1]
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Champion

On 6/1/15 7:43 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:

> I forgot tell in the initial mail... This whole activity was started
> by Jacopo Cappellato from Apache OFBiz, who has the "Champion" role in
> this, as they call it at ASF. We also already have the required number
> of Mentors BTW.
>
>
> Sunday, May 31, 2015, 7:59:52 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:
>
>> Sounds really cool!
>> I'd like to help anythings (code/doc contributions and incubation
>> related chores) with regard to moving to ASF. I have once helped Apache
>> Rave a bit in PPMC with my colleagues (one as ASF member as well). I'll
>> spread the word.
>> I'm sure this project will be really successful and gather big
>> participation soon in bigger communities with this move.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Woonsan
>>
>> On 5/30/15 6:21 AM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>>
>>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>>> of space for advancement.
>>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Woonsan Ko
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Thank you very much, Daniel!

I have been very happy with Freemarker personally and so it's very hard
to find somethings I can hate, but I've just tried to list some wishes
and improvement ideas from our experiences below: :-)


FreemarkerServlet related improvements
--------------------------------------

 - TLD initializations can be done in #init() phase to avoid initial
hiccups. We Hippo had to override the default servlet:
https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3299

 - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
template execution.
   Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)

 - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
   Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
Configuration settings without code changes.
   (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,
         https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)

 - Locale issue.
   Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
   It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.

 -  More lightweight version.
    Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
having to set up a servlet.
    By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
integration probably.


I think this is it for now. :-)

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Woonsan


On 6/1/15 4:00 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:

> So, Marijan and Woonasan. I'm especially interested in what Hippo
> needs, what FM features you miss the most there, and what existing
> "features" you hate the most.
>
> Also, if in what topics you feel like contributing to. (Like Woonasan
> has mentioned Spring MVC integration. That would be very useful to
> improve.)
>
> (And again, there will be a TODO list to pick from.)
>


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Europe +31(0)20 522 4466

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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Woonsan Ko
Another complaint from one of our users was about the online
documentation. The site documentation looks good enough to me, but some
people might have felt a bit hard to find the proper info fast enough.

Regards,

Woonsan

On 6/2/15 9:31 AM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

> Thank you very much, Daniel!
>
> I have been very happy with Freemarker personally and so it's very hard
> to find somethings I can hate, but I've just tried to list some wishes
> and improvement ideas from our experiences below: :-)
>
>
> FreemarkerServlet related improvements
> --------------------------------------
>
>  - TLD initializations can be done in #init() phase to avoid initial
> hiccups. We Hippo had to override the default servlet:
> https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3299
>
>  - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
> template execution.
>    Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
> the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
> template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
> least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)
>
>  - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
>    Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
> it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
> Configuration settings without code changes.
>    (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,
>          https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)
>
>  - Locale issue.
>    Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
> the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
> can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
> formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
>    It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
> Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.
>
>  -  More lightweight version.
>     Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
> of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
> Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
> servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
> easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
> servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
> which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
> having to set up a servlet.
>     By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
> integration probably.
>
>
> I think this is it for now. :-)
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Woonsan
>
>
> On 6/1/15 4:00 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>> So, Marijan and Woonasan. I'm especially interested in what Hippo
>> needs, what FM features you miss the most there, and what existing
>> "features" you hate the most.
>>
>> Also, if in what topics you feel like contributing to. (Like Woonasan
>> has mentioned Spring MVC integration. That would be very useful to
>> improve.)
>>
>> (And again, there will be a TODO list to pick from.)
>>
>
>


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Europe +31(0)20 522 4466

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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Wong, Christopher-2
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Concerning the "public template introspection API", I'd like to provide an update on my freemarker-introspection project:

https://github.com/cwong15/freemarker-introspection

I've updated the code to support the latest Freemarker (2.3.22). To inspect the parsed Freemarker AST, it now uses package-local access instead of reflection for more robust Freemarker compatibility. I'm open to recommendations on how to progress towards making this part of the Freemarker project somehow.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dekany [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:21 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Freemarker-devel] Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if something happens with me, or I just move on).

So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in directives), public template introspection API, better debugging, Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot of space for advancement.

--
Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Woonsan Ko
Tuesday, June 2, 2015, 3:31:39 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

> Thank you very much, Daniel!
>
> I have been very happy with Freemarker personally and so it's very hard
> to find somethings I can hate, but I've just tried to list some wishes
> and improvement ideas from our experiences below: :-)
>
>
> FreemarkerServlet related improvements
> --------------------------------------
>
>  - TLD initializations can be done in #init() phase to avoid initial
> hiccups. We Hippo had to override the default servlet:
> https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3299

I don't see right now why's there a race condition; both TaglibFactory
initialization and TLD loading is synchronized (unless there's a bug
somewhere). Nor do I see how the hiccup can be worked around, because
creating the TaglibFactory is nothing, and loading the TLD-s (which is
the expensive step) will happen on demand regardless of when you are
initializing the TaglibFactory. Unless you are willing to specify a
manually assembled list of TLD-s in init-params, it can't happen
earlier, as we can't know ahead what TLD-s will be requested from the
templates.

>  - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
> template execution.
>    Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
> the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
> template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
> least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)

Wouldn't that (the Content-type being set or not) be confusing and
fragile to build on? Is there a guarantee at all that the Servlet
container itself doesn't fill it with some default?

Since FreemarkerServlet meant to be the only one who fiddles with the
response content (it's the View after all), it's naturally also
responsible for ensuring that the content type is consistently set.
So, maybe it would be better if we don't take away that duty from
FreemarkerServlet, instead it should be smarted about it:

- You could just tell FreemarkerServlet explicitly to set a given
  content type with a ServletRequest attribute. It's analogous to
  specifying data-model variables to tell Freemarker what to show,
  which you also do in the ServlerRequest via attributes.

- Support a new init-param value: ContentType=dontSet

- Adding a protected method where you can override how content type
  detection happens, and if it happens (returning null means "don't
  set").

>  - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
>    Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
> it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
> Configuration settings without code changes.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Pretty much all the Freemarker
settings can be set through the init-params, because the init-params
that are not recognized are feed to Configuration.setSetting(String,
String).

>    (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,

If you want to specify a setting that doesn't exist in
FreemarkerServlet, then naturally you have to extends
FreemarkerServlet so that it can deal with that setting.

>          https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)

Says "Errors in freemarker templates are logged on SEVERE level" (not
by FM). Is that what you meant to link?

BTW, note that in 2.3.22 you can tell Freemarker not to log the
template errors which will cause Template.process to throw an
exception on you anyway. So then it's up to you if and how do you log
them.

>  - Locale issue.
>    Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
> the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
> can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
> formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
>    It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
> Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.

Is that default also desirable in other frameworks that use
FreemarkerServlet? It's a breaking change, so I don't think we can
change the default any time soon, but there could be an init-param for
this. (Though Hippo is perhaps not affected, as you already provide a
customized FreemarkerServler anyway.)

>  -  More lightweight version.
>     Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
> of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
> Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
> servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
> easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
> servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
> which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
> having to set up a servlet.
>     By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
> integration probably.

The JavaDoc of freemarker.ext.jsp.TaglibFactory says: "It can be added
to custom servlets as well to enable JSP taglib integration in them as
well." So at least at some point in the past that was an intent. It
should be piloted out if it indeed works, and maybe an example should
be added where it's applied.

> I think this is it for now. :-)

So it seems, a good place for contributions for Hippo is all these JSP
integration stuff. This is where I'm weaker anyway... ;-)

And if someone at Hippo needs to do a hack to make FreemarkerServlet
behave better, always consider if it could be part of
FreemarkerServlet instead.

> Thanks again!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Woonsan

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
In reply to this post by Woonsan Ko
Tuesday, June 2, 2015, 3:38:55 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

> Another complaint from one of our users was about the online
> documentation. The site documentation looks good enough to me, but some
> people might have felt a bit hard to find the proper info fast enough.

Evangelia has added Google Search to the Manual with Docgen 2.0. I
hope it can be out in a few weeks. Also maybe I should make some good
cheat sheets...

> Regards,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On 6/2/15 9:31 AM, Woonsan Ko wrote:
>> Thank you very much, Daniel!
>>
>> I have been very happy with Freemarker personally and so it's very hard
>> to find somethings I can hate, but I've just tried to list some wishes
>> and improvement ideas from our experiences below: :-)
>>
>>
>> FreemarkerServlet related improvements
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>>  - TLD initializations can be done in #init() phase to avoid initial
>> hiccups. We Hippo had to override the default servlet:
>> https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3299
>>
>>  - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
>> template execution.
>>    Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
>> the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
>> template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
>> least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)
>>
>>  - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
>>    Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
>> it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
>> Configuration settings without code changes.
>>    (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,
>>          https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)
>>
>>  - Locale issue.
>>    Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
>> the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
>> can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
>> formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
>>    It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
>> Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.
>>
>>  -  More lightweight version.
>>     Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
>> of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
>> Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
>> servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
>> easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
>> servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
>> which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
>> having to set up a servlet.
>>     By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
>> integration probably.
>>
>>
>> I think this is it for now. :-)
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Woonsan
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/15 4:00 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:
>>> So, Marijan and Woonasan. I'm especially interested in what Hippo
>>> needs, what FM features you miss the most there, and what existing
>>> "features" you hate the most.
>>>
>>> Also, if in what topics you feel like contributing to. (Like Woonasan
>>> has mentioned Spring MVC integration. That would be very useful to
>>> improve.)
>>>
>>> (And again, there will be a TODO list to pick from.)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Woonsan Ko
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
On 6/2/15 6:38 PM, Daniel Dekany wrote:

> Tuesday, June 2, 2015, 3:31:39 PM, Woonsan Ko wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much, Daniel!
>>
>> I have been very happy with Freemarker personally and so it's very hard
>> to find somethings I can hate, but I've just tried to list some wishes
>> and improvement ideas from our experiences below: :-)
>>
>>
>> FreemarkerServlet related improvements
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>>  - TLD initializations can be done in #init() phase to avoid initial
>> hiccups. We Hippo had to override the default servlet:
>> https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3299
>
> I don't see right now why's there a race condition; both TaglibFactory
> initialization and TLD loading is synchronized (unless there's a bug
> somewhere). Nor do I see how the hiccup can be worked around, because
> creating the TaglibFactory is nothing, and loading the TLD-s (which is
> the expensive step) will happen on demand regardless of when you are
> initializing the TaglibFactory. Unless you are willing to specify a
> manually assembled list of TLD-s in init-params, it can't happen
> earlier, as we can't know ahead what TLD-s will be requested from the
> templates.

Hmm. Maybe I need to try to reproduce the problem with FreemarkerServlet
instead of our custom servlet. I'll figure out what the root cause is
and let you know again. Apologies if it's caused by a custom module here.

>
>>  - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
>> template execution.
>>    Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
>> the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
>> template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
>> least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)
>
> Wouldn't that (the Content-type being set or not) be confusing and
> fragile to build on? Is there a guarantee at all that the Servlet
> container itself doesn't fill it with some default?
>
> Since FreemarkerServlet meant to be the only one who fiddles with the
> response content (it's the View after all), it's naturally also
> responsible for ensuring that the content type is consistently set.

I think it's a good practice to ensure setting Content-Type in the view
servlet. My point was if someone sets Content-Type in the controller
before dispatching to the view then the view servlet might skip setting
it again to a default value (unless developer sets in template again).
Comparing with JSP, the current behavior seems okay, but I was thinking
in line of flexibility in our HMVC framework.

> So, maybe it would be better if we don't take away that duty from
> FreemarkerServlet, instead it should be smarted about it:
>
> - You could just tell FreemarkerServlet explicitly to set a given
>   content type with a ServletRequest attribute. It's analogous to
>   specifying data-model variables to tell Freemarker what to show,
>   which you also do in the ServlerRequest via attributes.
>
> - Support a new init-param value: ContentType=dontSet
>
> - Adding a protected method where you can override how content type
>   detection happens, and if it happens (returning null means "don't
>   set").

I would like an init-param better than custom request attribute or
protected method. Thanks for the suggestion!

>
>>  - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
>>    Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
>> it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
>> Configuration settings without code changes.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here. Pretty much all the Freemarker
> settings can be set through the init-params, because the init-params
> that are not recognized are feed to Configuration.setSetting(String,
> String).

Ah you're right. I was totally confused. I've just realized that even
the following issue was about our misuse of the configuration parameter
at the moment. Thanks for the pointer!

>
>>    (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,
>
> If you want to specify a setting that doesn't exist in
> FreemarkerServlet, then naturally you have to extends
> FreemarkerServlet so that it can deal with that setting.
>
>>          https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)
>
> Says "Errors in freemarker templates are logged on SEVERE level" (not
> by FM). Is that what you meant to link?
>
> BTW, note that in 2.3.22 you can tell Freemarker not to log the
> template errors which will cause Template.process to throw an
> exception on you anyway. So then it's up to you if and how do you log
> them.

Ah this is also my mistake. We did override it there to ignore exception
by default unless users sets TemplateExceptionHandler init parameter
explicitly. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

>
>>  - Locale issue.
>>    Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
>> the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
>> can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
>> formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
>>    It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
>> Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.
>
> Is that default also desirable in other frameworks that use
> FreemarkerServlet? It's a breaking change, so I don't think we can
> change the default any time soon, but there could be an init-param for
> this. (Though Hippo is perhaps not affected, as you already provide a
> customized FreemarkerServler anyway.)

I think so. For example, Spring Framework has a built-in component
interface, LocaleResolver [1]. Depending on implementation component, it
resolves the current request locale based on header, cookie, session,
param, etc. So, even if they use the same component/template, they can
change the locale and use different i18n resources dynamically.

[1]
http://docs.spring.io/spring/docs/current/spring-framework-reference/htmlsingle/#mvc-localeresolver

>
>>  -  More lightweight version.
>>     Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
>> of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
>> Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
>> servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
>> easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
>> servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
>> which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
>> having to set up a servlet.
>>     By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
>> integration probably.
>
> The JavaDoc of freemarker.ext.jsp.TaglibFactory says: "It can be added
> to custom servlets as well to enable JSP taglib integration in them as
> well." So at least at some point in the past that was an intent. It
> should be piloted out if it indeed works, and maybe an example should
> be added where it's applied.

IIRC, it seemed difficult to do. But I can try it later again. I'll let
you know later.

>
>> I think this is it for now. :-)
>
> So it seems, a good place for contributions for Hippo is all these JSP
> integration stuff. This is where I'm weaker anyway... ;-)

Yeah, and maybe (H)MVC integration things (Spring Framework, Struts2 for
instance).

>
> And if someone at Hippo needs to do a hack to make FreemarkerServlet
> behave better, always consider if it could be part of
> FreemarkerServlet instead.

Yeah, that's the right way to go. Agreed.

Cheers,

Woonsan

>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Woonsan
>


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

Daniel Dekany
Wednesday, June 3, 2015, 5:13:00 AM, Woonsan Ko wrote:

[snip]

>>>  - #setContentType() invocation can check if it was already set before
>>> template execution.
>>>    Currently, it invoked on #setContentType() every time regardless of
>>> the situation that (H)MVC framework sets it before executing the
>>> template. I'd like to have an option to not set if already existing at
>>> least. (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-3012)
>>
>> Wouldn't that (the Content-type being set or not) be confusing and
>> fragile to build on? Is there a guarantee at all that the Servlet
>> container itself doesn't fill it with some default?
>>
>> Since FreemarkerServlet meant to be the only one who fiddles with the
>> response content (it's the View after all), it's naturally also
>> responsible for ensuring that the content type is consistently set.
>
> I think it's a good practice to ensure setting Content-Type in the view
> servlet. My point was if someone sets Content-Type in the controller
> before dispatching to the view then the view servlet might skip setting
> it again to a default value (unless developer sets in template again).

So how reliable that is, detecting if it wasn't set? Does the Servlet
spec. say something about this?

> Comparing with JSP, the current behavior seems okay, but I was thinking
> in line of flexibility in our HMVC framework.
>
>> So, maybe it would be better if we don't take away that duty from
>> FreemarkerServlet, instead it should be smarted about it:
>>
>> - You could just tell FreemarkerServlet explicitly to set a given
>>   content type with a ServletRequest attribute. It's analogous to
>>   specifying data-model variables to tell Freemarker what to show,
>>   which you also do in the ServlerRequest via attributes.
>>
>> - Support a new init-param value: ContentType=dontSet
>>
>> - Adding a protected method where you can override how content type
>>   detection happens, and if it happens (returning null means "don't
>>   set").
>
> I would like an init-param better than custom request attribute or
> protected method. Thanks for the suggestion!

So then, let's just extend the existing "ContentType" init-param to
support "dontSet"/"dont_set" value, or whatever it should be (and
indeed what should it be?). Then we will *never* set the content type,
not even if it wasn't set. Will the servlet container add a default
content type then? Had to check the specs and try it at least on
Tomcat and Jetty...

>>>  - Configuration settings could be set through init parameters.
>>>    Some servlet-related parameters are set through init parameters, but
>>> it could be even better if there's any specific init-param(s) to set
>>> Configuration settings without code changes.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean here. Pretty much all the Freemarker
>> settings can be set through the init-params, because the init-params
>> that are not recognized are feed to Configuration.setSetting(String,
>> String).
>
> Ah you're right. I was totally confused. I've just realized that even
> the following issue was about our misuse of the configuration parameter
> at the moment. Thanks for the pointer!
>
>>
>>>    (ref: https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2525,
>>
>> If you want to specify a setting that doesn't exist in
>> FreemarkerServlet, then naturally you have to extends
>> FreemarkerServlet so that it can deal with that setting.
>>
>>>          https://issues.onehippo.com/browse/HSTTWO-2460)
>>
>> Says "Errors in freemarker templates are logged on SEVERE level" (not
>> by FM). Is that what you meant to link?
>>
>> BTW, note that in 2.3.22 you can tell Freemarker not to log the
>> template errors which will cause Template.process to throw an
>> exception on you anyway. So then it's up to you if and how do you log
>> them.
>
> Ah this is also my mistake. We did override it there to ignore exception
> by default unless users sets TemplateExceptionHandler init parameter
> explicitly. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

Things like this can cause confusion as they interfere with similar FM
features. It's better to figure out how to address the problem in
Freemarker itself and then contribute... (-;

>>>  - Locale issue.
>>>    Currently templates are executed with a specific global locale all
>>> the time (FreemarkerServlet.deduceLocale() uses config.getLocale()). It
>>> can be overriden though. This can result in wrong date/currency
>>> formatting issue for instance (when using <@fmt.format* /> JSTL tags).
>>>    It could have read HttpServletRequest#getLocale() by default.
>>> Normally (H)MVC frameworks sets the request locale before rendering a view.
>>
>> Is that default also desirable in other frameworks that use
>> FreemarkerServlet? It's a breaking change, so I don't think we can
>> change the default any time soon, but there could be an init-param for
>> this. (Though Hippo is perhaps not affected, as you already provide a
>> customized FreemarkerServler anyway.)
>
> I think so. For example, Spring Framework has a built-in component
> interface, LocaleResolver [1]. Depending on implementation component, it
> resolves the current request locale based on header, cookie, session,
> param, etc. So, even if they use the same component/template, they can
> change the locale and use different i18n resources dynamically.

Doesn't that just sets the locale in the RequestContext? That's a
Spring-specific object. Because then overriding deduceLocale(...) is
still the only option. If they were using FreemarkerSerlvet at all,
that is...

> [1]
> http://docs.spring.io/spring/docs/current/spring-framework-reference/htmlsingle/#mvc-localeresolver
>
>>
>>>  -  More lightweight version.
>>>     Sometimes our users want to use a more lightweight version instead
>>> of FreemarkerServlet. Especially people who are very familiar with
>>> Spring MVC Framework want that without having to set up a Freemarker
>>> servlet configuration in web.xml. One hurdle for them was they cannot
>>> easily take advantage of JSTL tag libraries if they don't use the
>>> servlet. I wish we could have more lightweight component support with
>>> which we can take advantage of JSTL tag support independently, without
>>> having to set up a servlet.
>>>     By the way, this might be a byproduct of spring mvc framework
>>> integration probably.
>>
>> The JavaDoc of freemarker.ext.jsp.TaglibFactory says: "It can be added
>> to custom servlets as well to enable JSP taglib integration in them as
>> well." So at least at some point in the past that was an intent. It
>> should be piloted out if it indeed works, and maybe an example should
>> be added where it's applied.
>
> IIRC, it seemed difficult to do. But I can try it later again. I'll let
> you know later.

Well, it's entirely possible that it needs some substantial changes...
I don't know. The whole servlet/JSP integration stuff was always out
of my focus somehow.

>>> I think this is it for now. :-)
>>
>> So it seems, a good place for contributions for Hippo is all these JSP
>> integration stuff. This is where I'm weaker anyway... ;-)
>
> Yeah, and maybe (H)MVC integration things (Spring Framework, Struts2 for
> instance).
>
>>
>> And if someone at Hippo needs to do a hack to make FreemarkerServlet
>> behave better, always consider if it could be part of
>> FreemarkerServlet instead.
>
> Yeah, that's the right way to go. Agreed.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Woonsan

--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


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Re: Looking for contributors as part of Apache incubation

marijan milicevic
In reply to this post by Daniel Dekany
Hi Daniel,

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Daniel Dekany <[hidden email]> wrote:
So, Marijan and Woonasan. I'm especially interested in what Hippo
needs, what FM features you miss the most there, and what existing
"features" you hate the most.

Also, if in what topics you feel like contributing to. (Like Woonasan
has mentioned Spring MVC integration. That would be very useful to
improve.)

(And again, there will be a TODO list to pick from.)


beside number of things Woonsan already mentioned, 
I would also like  to see better IDE support...
Currently I am quite familiar with Intellij plugin API and in the past I built Eclipse plugin 
for custom language so I have some experience with Eclipse plugin API, although this was long ago...

Other than that, on a personal level, I would be interested to learn (and do) more about grammar/parsers/AST building 
(I see freemarker is using javacc, I have some experience with antlr),


cheers,
marijan


 
--
Thanks,
 Daniel Dekany


Monday, June 1, 2015, 2:33:52 PM, marijan milicevic wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I would also be interested in contributing..I am (we are) using freemarker
> extensively and I would really like it to become an Apache project.
>
> My apache "handle" is marijan (@apache.org) if you need more information.
>
> cheers
> marijan
>
> PS:  I am one of the Woonasan colleagues
>
>
> Daniel Dekany wrote
>> We are (or mostly, I'm) trying to move FreeMarker over to the Apache
>> Software Foundation. So far the reaction is mostly positive on
>> Apache's side, but, the major concern is the low number of active
>> contributors. If everything goes well, there will be a voting about
>> letting FreeMarker in into the Apache *Incubator*, where it will have
>> to build up some kind of community or else it will fail. OTOH the main
>> reason I want FM to be an Apache project is exactly to improve chances
>> of finding contributors, especially long term ones like myself.
>> Obviously, one man (me) is not very safe for the users (like what if
>> something happens with me, or I just move on).
>>
>> So, I just wonder if I can expect anyone to join the incubation when
>> and if it will be started. There's lot of interesting but difficult
>> tasks to do. Like better automatic escaping, a new parser that's more
>> IDE friendly and faster and has better error messages, proper support
>> of Map-s with non-string keys, better null handling, advanced
>> white-space removal, better caching, better i18n, supporting custom
>> "dialects" (i.e., changing the set of built-ins and built-in
>> directives), public template introspection API, better debugging,
>> Android support, and many more. It was just a glimpse. There's a lot
>> of space for advancement.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Daniel Dekany
>>
>>
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